Hey, PC(USA): I have an idea.
So I’ve been thinking a lot about the PC(USA) job market recently (surprise!). It’s pretty bleak out there, and the situation gets really personal for me: I have a ton – a ton – of incredibly talented friends who are (1) recent seminary grads, but (2) still looking for a call years after graduation. We’re talking about vibrant, talented, energetic, brilliant people who keep getting close, but the numbers are stacked against them. In many cases, they’re struggling and frustrated, unsure of what to do.
Eventually, I got fed up with just sitting around complaining. So I’ve started shopping an idea around with some people. I’ve heard feedback from dozens of seminarians, small-church pastors, tall-steeple pastors, and church administrators. There seems to be some energy around this concept, and people are excited about the potential.
At first I thought about keeping the idea close to my chest and trying to work it out privately…But then I thought, naw — ideas are always more powerful and helpful when they are shared.
So here is what I’ve got. Feel free to leave comments and idea below – let’s think this through together!
First, a few things you all probably already know:
From what I understand, the PC(USA) has too many pastors — anyone can look at the CLC right now and see that. The line right now is “We could shut down all of our seminaries for five years and still have too many pastors.” Old pastors aren’t retiring, often staying in their positions longer due to the downed economy. Younger, mid-career pastors are either doing well or “stuck” in their 1st/2nd call without much mobility, meaning they aren’t necessarily eager (or able) to try to go form a ton of new churches. More pressingly, we have a ton of seminary grads vying for a very small number of jobs/positions, many whom are also saddled with student debt. They’re taking part-time gigs at churches or Starbucks to tide them over, sometimes without health insurance or benefits. Presbyteries could, hypothetically, give them money to start church planting, but they’re either out of money or using it to help keep some struggling churches alive (e.g., many of the 50% of PCUSA churches that are under 100 members). They probably see the seminary grads as a “bad bet” in terms of church-planting — they think they need someone “more experience,” and they’re worried about the risk.
Meanwhile, our denomination (like so many others) is bemoaning the “death” of the mainline. Tragically, our church is literally dying as its eldest members pass away, because there is no one to replace them — no one is joining our churches.
It is, in short, a crisis situation for the church.
Some already-proposed answers to this:
1) One theory that’s been kicked around for a while is basically importing the old church-planting model. Just get big churches to start other churches. Give a lot of power to individual leaders and let them roll. Old-school, but clearly effective.
This, however, does little to resolve the issue of having too many pastors — it’s too slow. It can work in certain places, but, in many ways, it’s a slow – or even false – start.
2) The GAMC is hard at work on its “1001 New Worshiping Communities” idea, but how that actually works is somewhat unclear.
3) There is also For Such A Time As This, which, while awesome, only serves a very small number of churches.
4) There is also Judd Hendrix’s Ecclesia Project in Lousiville (it’s awesome), but it’s limited to only about 6 people at the moment. Which is great for those 6 people, but not so great for the other hundreds of seminary grads.
Or, we could try something else:
(Note: I worked in politics for two years — mostly as a staffer on the Obama campaign — before going to seminary, so I might occasionally put things in ‘political’ terms. Forgive me. 
)
So we’ve got all these seminary grads with MDivs working part-time jobs at churches and at Starbucks. Most of them, more than anything, just want a church community of their own — they want to create something. Instead, they are scrapping by: they’re often trying to work two jobs, sometimes without health insurance.
But what if we gave these seminary grads what they wanted…for cheap?
What if you gave these kids either (a) health insurance (b) anywhere from $5,000 (realistically) to $15,000 (idealistically) or (c) both to work 10-20 hours a week (depending on the pay) to start a “worship community.” Note: these would not necessarily HAVE to be ordained positions, at least not at the start. They wouldn’t necessarily officiate the sacraments (although they could), and “membership” would be more loose of a category. They’d meet in whatever they could find, from coffee shops to church basements to living rooms (which would drive down costs). They could be running groups that also pray, or a jam session that doubles as a worship hour; think things that go beyond traditional conceptions of “church” as something that needs a power bill and a robed choir. They could even be encouraged to move to a low-income/high-need area to try a church, a la Teach for America (or, as a friend up here put it, “Preach for America.” Get it?).
The commitment would be relatively low at the outset, with low-risk for the presbytery and seminary grad if it “failed.” But if it grew into something, it could take on a full-bodied status in a presbytery really quickly, or even just fold into a larger church. Worst case scenario: we’re right back where we started, but we’ve tried something. More likely: if only 10% of these kinds of projects worked, that is significantly more than would have occurred otherwise.
The result is, ideally, a win-win: The seminary grads get extra pay/healthcare to live on, and they get to actually create something. The Presbytery does have to trust some recent seminary grads, but they’re really getting a low-risk situation with little paperwork that only has the potential for growth. The denomination, ideally, gets more churches/church bodies. God gets new, spirit-led communities.
And for the practically minded: they get it relatively cheaply.
It could start with a pilot program of 5-15 seminary grads from across the country already working part-time jobs. We could try to get the money from denomination/presbyteries, or we could just vie for a grant from something like the Lily Foundation. We could also grab funding elsewhere; wherever we can, really. Key point: Folks would need to be trained in some organizing tactics and community/church development strategies a la Marshall Ganz and others (because almost NONE of our seminaries currently teach this), but also some new things. This could be done in several ways (a week or weekend might work), and there would be a national “chief organizer” who could check in on participants a form of accountability. It’d be a year-long project, with writing/journaling happening all the while. Ideally, there would also be a local mentor and/or presbytery involvement.
I’ve spoken to dozens of seminary students about this, and they are very, very excited about the prospect (especially the health insurance part). It doesn’t seem like a lot of help, but they’re eager for ANY help. That might be a sign in and of itself.
In political terms: instead of holding our money for a “sure” bet or propping up dying bets, the denomination (assuming the money comes from them) spreads the money around with a bunch of small, low risk bets, with the potential for a huge net gain.
It also starts taking responsibility for the literally hundreds of seminary students the denomination encouraged to go to seminary, take out loans, and eventually be shoved into a dying job market with almost NO training in how to create their own jobs.
In real terms: the church starts trusting God, their seminaries and their seminary grads to start spreading the Gospel however they can, just as they were trained to…and like Jesus asked us to.
I know there are some nuances here in terms of how to make it work polity-wise. But myself and many others are of the persuasion that the church needs to start taking some risks, and this is just a small way of doing that. Frankly, we’re not sure we really have any other choice.
So…Whatcha think? Let me know!
Or…You know, we — by whom I mean the Roman Catholic Church — could rent out some of your pastors. We’ve got a bit of a shortage.
Oh you.
But yes, that sounds like an intriguing proposition.
Please, folks that are drawn to this project/experiment idea and are in the metro DC area, I am strongly drawn to this practice.
I think with the open and willing but has to be passionate leadership presence, our area would like to practice this. The low risk variable is helpful to put out there as aspects within our beloved structures, while still standing (churches and presbyteries), need a sanctuary of space to feel this through! The Spirit is already doing the work of visioning…it is just hard for then us the bodies to step into it.
My beef with any tent making is the notion of get to it on your own. Excuse my English but hell to the no! two by two! Folks called into lay and ordained ministry are already odd so in no way should we be by ourselves in the midst of the practice.
Jack! The model you have tossed out is strong and I hope to follow through into it with other colleagues into the next year.
YES. This isn’t my denom so I’ll be extra frank: LISTEN TO JACK. JACK LISTENS TO GOD. And he’s really, really smart.
Anybody who’s ever organized anything from scratch can see that something like the model Jack has sketched out here is the only viable way to move forward. The question is whether those with say-so will continue their chokehold on everything that happens, ensuring nothing will happen, or relinquish some of the intoxicating delusion of authority and expertise in order to allow those who know how to address the intense spiritual hunger of our peers to do exactly that.
Otherwise, all the talk about young people and leadership is just self-congratulatory noise, and the kind of false advertising at the heart of why so many 20- and 30-somethings want nothing to do with church.
YES!!! I say we form a committee to fully explore these ideas. And then if y’all could work out the details sometime in the next 4-7 years so there’s some sort of plan for me when I get through seminary, that would be dandy. In all seriousness, you’re on to something here. I hope people listen and act on it.
I watched the Obama campaign during caucus season last time around, fascinated at how their process would be great for planting churches. Spreading out across communities, intentionally connecting with residents where they were and forming genuine relationships with people… I was inspired.
Good analysis of the situation. And I think what you’re describing is essentially the vision of the “1001 New Worshipping Communities” idea, although I completely agree that the way in which that will actually work has been very ambiguously expressed (by the GAMC). I think what the initiative is missing is exactly what you have suggested–healthcare and a certain amount of minimal pay, as well as training in organizing/new church development tactics. My understanding is that as of now, the 1001 New Worshipping Communities doesn’t contain provisions for any of the above :/ But, if it could be combined with what you’re describing, I think it would have a shot!
Agreed — I think the GAMC is eager to do SOMETHING like this, but they don’t know how. Honestly, I’m not sure if the institution proper will be able to do it on their own. It might require an independent group to fire up the engines, mostly because the independent groups can move more quickly/agilely.
But I’d be the first one to line up to support the GAMC if they present a plan…i’m just still waiting.
Thanks Jack for sharing. Definitely something I think about all the time. Now how to get it done…
I think it’s a fantastic idea. As a student at a Presbyterian seminary (Louisville) I hope to be close enough to see this and similar concepts start to happen; as an Episcopalian, I’d like to figure a way to export something similar within our denominational structure.
Robin — I’d be fascinated to see how this would work in an Episcopalian format. I know the Episcopal church has done some really cool things with emergent communities (e.g., the Crossing here in Boston), but this would be an even bigger leap forward in terms of flexibility. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but Episcopalians don’t necessarily get to “decide” where they work, as that’s technically the Bishop’s job (although I understand most Bishops are amenable to the requests of those they serve). As such, I’d be curious to see how that flexibility would work in practice.
So glad you’re here!
If this becomes an actual thing, will you credit me for thinking of the health insurance part?
I am worried, like Marissa, that older generations will never “relinquish some of the intoxicating delusion of authority and expertise” that prevents them from giving us a chance to take a chance, take a risk, and maybe fail. Don’t forget that we are a denomination whose idea of ministry is largely based on expertise. What makes a minister? You learn Greek. You learn Hebrew. You take a bunch of tests. In a denomination that worships at the feet of academic prowess (but not too much of that, mind…) and a far more diffuse and hard to nail down obsession with second career folks who have “life experience,” we’re in for an uphill battle.
But notice all the first person plurals I used just then. You know I’m in. Always have been.
Well, Katherine, I am one of those older generations, a CLP and life long Presby who belongs to a “growing” congregation, and I think it is a fantastic idea. I would help in any way I could and I have something that is at a premium with the younguns, I have time.
I think this is a great idea . . . lots of details as you note, the biggest of which will be how that initial group is brought together and supported, an important part of still being part of the call process for any of us. Competition for jobs brings out the best and worst of us all.
Jack, you are one smart cookie. I think this is a great idea. Here’s what I am thinking…. how can you tie this to the teeny tiny little churches in rural America who cannot afford to have a full-time pastor but want so desperately to have a minister who will breathe new life into their community before they have to close their doors forever? I think us young 20-somethings fresh out of seminary have to compromise a little bit…our first call might not be an associate pastor of a steeple church in a city. I think a lot of us are scared that if we get thrown into solo-pastor, rural ministry we will sink rather than swim, but it’s a powerful learning experience. I know it isn’t for everyone but, with the ingenuity that you are talking about and the support financially of the denomination paired with the dire need of tiny churches who do not have a steady pastor this could be something really powerful.
Loren,
I think part of what you’re describing is what “For Such A Time Is This” is trying to do (I link to their brochure in the post). There are, however, two problems: (1) unfortunately, most seminary students aren’t jazzed about moving to a rural place, and (2) those are traditional church gigs, which would mean that – for that to work long-term – they would have to become financially stable and self-sustaining. The first part is fixable (i.e., just send seminary grad there anyway), but the second part is a serious problem. If these rural churches still work off the old church model, how and where does that money come from? The plan listed above is mostly geared towards “church” that doesn’t require a building (although they could if they wanted).
Still, it COULD be possible to institute this as a sort of “first call” situation. These rural churches would essentially have to get used to having itinerate, first-call pastors for short spells of time (1-2 years) whose salary is paid by someone/something else. If all parties agree to that sort of scenario, I think that could be something (which may or may not be what For Such A Time Is This is doing).
Keep the ideas coming!
I am intringued by this proposal and would hope it gets some attention from seminaries and the GA.
send them in 2s and 3s. People need peers.
Are you aware of the young adult volunteerism/community-development conversation that Rick and Kitty hosted at Stony Point about 1-2years back? Or their Community of Living Traditions? If you’re looking for allies and/or co-idea developers, that network might be good place expand the conversation quickly. It included all manner of folks that have been involved in YAV and similar methods of engaging young adults (ordained and otherwise)– including Sally Campbell from Tallahassee, who was my “in” on the happenings.
Also, in terms of the logistics and details, I continue to be impressed by the model the mormon church provides for equipping and sending young adults to aid in the organization of their church. They orchestrate a “church machine” of incredible dimensions.
I think you’re right about the 2s or 3s bit – sending groups might be ideal. From a venture capitalist perspective (that sounds icky just saying it, but it’s also true): groups tend to respond to money better and give better results than individuals. Mutual accountability matters.
I’ll look into the names listed – thanks!
Good to hear from you, Nathan!
I would do it with you Jack, I need some work!!
I hear you, brother. People like you are why something like this needs to exist.
Jack, I know you mentioned it, but this is essentially what the mid-KY Presbytery is doing with the Ecclesia project. 5000 dollar grants may not seem like much to the denomination, but to struggling pastors it’s a godsend for being able to form communities.
Additionally, the older church buildings that are really being under-utilized could form into “hacker-spaces” -places where many communities can meet, exchange ideas, and have limited office space and mail without huge overhead. James Lees presbyterian church has recently started this shift, into the “collaboratory of 1741 Frankfort”, which may help other churches do similarly.
Both of these concepts are new and exciting-and don’t royal a lot for the Presbytery if they go in different directions than planned (note: nothing falls -there is always an increase in knowledge, even if that is just how not to do it at that particular context!)
Lucas,
1) You’re right, Judd’s Ecclesia Project is very close to this in concept (although his is for people of all faiths, not just PC(USA) folk). I was working on this idea a few weeks before coming to NEXT, and got really, really excited when I heard him talk about his project.
Still, Judd, as mentioned, is only reaching 6 or so people right now, and I think the TRAINING piece is something that is missing – if you offer seminary grads training, I think it’ll get real amazing real quick.
2) Thank you for both knowing what hackerspaces are and for bringing them up. I totally agree that older churches with unused space could be an excellent breeding ground for projects, and they could house projects that are already firing up their engines. That’s great insight.
“Royal” should read “risk.” Silly autocorrect.
This is a great idea. I’m the organizing pastor of a new church in SC. The truth is that a presbytery or a congregation could fairly easily provide the infra-structure to support this kind of move. There is a denominational coaching network that could provide the training–coaches are all folks who planted churches. It could easily be set up so that a ‘failure’ of a project is not a major problem, but a ‘success’ works wonders. I really like the idea of asking the recent grad–What do you need to take this chance? Cash? Insurance? Permission? A parachute? If we let them answer that question, then a church or presbytery can figure out what resources they can and cannot provide.
vbhill,
Absolutely. The “organizing pastor” title is also fascinating to me (is it still in the Book or Order), because it feels like something presbyteries should be taking advantage of ALL THE TIME.
But why, do you think, are Presbyteries holding back in this area?
Count this 2008 part time working Candidate for nearly two years in! In many ways, my SP and I have already day dreamed this. I would love to work on something like this!
Hey, I resemble that remark. Where are you located?
The challenge to this is to keep it so simple that it does not get bureaucratized by the leaders of the Denom, or that formulas or past models are used to determine what these should look like (i.e. go to Exponential in Orlando for the latest and greatest way to build a 1000 person church, etc.). Think like a Venture Capitalist. For every 10 “start-ups” you invest in, expect 6 to die, two to get your money back and 2 to be a moon shots like Google, etc.
This is fantastic. I would also like to see the PC(USA) stop (or at least cut back) the commissioned lay ruling elder program, and stop allowing for designated pastors and simply lower the presbytery minimum. From an economic point of view, they don’t even make sense; many of us who spent a lot of time looking for churches couldn’t serve the church that (in many cases) paid for our education. Essentially, they’re paying to educate us and then not reaping the rewards we offer. These policies are killing us.
Oh, and tent-making; anyone out there ever heard of a part-time job, with insurance, that pays you enough to make your bills and pay back your student loans, and is totally okay with you taking off in the middle of a shift because one of your long-time church members was just rushed to the hospital? Assuming the answer is no, I didn’t think so. If it’s yes, please tell me where to go!
Hey Susan, as one of those CLP’s at age 71, trust me, I’m not taking a job from any one, cause on Sunday morning, I’m going to those churches that have 10 or 20 people, (one time I preached to 3). I’ve seen a need for us in my Presbytery, as so many little churches can’t even affort a half time pastor. I think this is a wonderful idea and would support it in any way that I could.
EXACTLY!!! Thank you Susan. I will NEVER be a tent maker. No employer is ever going to be ok with the kind of flexability it takes for effective pastoral care. If pastors were just preachers it would be fine, but they’re not.
As for CLPs, I’ve tried to become one (you know, to do SOMETHING chruch related) and was told I’m “over qualified” becuase I have an M.Div and have passed my ords. Plus there are 2 churches in my area that have elected to go for a clp rather than an associate because it’s cheaper. (I was under the impression CLPs were for struggling rural churches… I was wrong)
great idea, that is how a lot of pentecostal and evangelical churches are born, last time I check the stadistics they are the fastest wrowing segment of christianity in the US, specially among minorities…
Taking this to our ncd team for conversation and risk taking adventures!
For our little community called The WordHouse – started by some friends and the push of a full-time non-ordained position not working out a few years ago – I recently began receiving mission funds from a 500 member local church. But it’s not enough. I’d love to have more support and training so the chances of our community thriving would be greater, and insurance so my wife and I could keep $200/month (from her job) to help realistically begin, and support, a family.
As a “second career folk” seminarian “with life experience” I’m reading your comments with wonder. Why did you learn how to practice Christian ministry? For the health benefits? Were y’all guaranteed a job out of school? (I don’t know, I’m seriously asking. When I earned my undergrad degree in the early 80s nobody guaranteed any grads anything. Except aerospace tech grads and computer programmers. Anyone remember COBOL?)
Life is chock full of risks, end of story.That’s one reason we’re supposed to stay close to God, to rely on God’s providence and provision, because we don’t know what’s up ahead. EVER. If you feel called to the minstry, don’t let a lack of insurance benefits derail your journey. Don’t wait for a semi-broke presbytery to underwrite your call. Cast your sights farther.Or trim your sights closer. Pray for the unexpected. Go out into the community, talk to businessmen and women for a fresh approach to an old problem – funding. Minister everywhere you can, including in the Starbucks where you work. Your LIFE is a ministry, to everyone you come into contact with. Be about God’s business wherever God has you, and you’ll be doing what you’re made to do.
Remember: Your situation is no surprise to God. Did you ever consider God might have you right where God wants you?
And you can tell I’m a seminarian because I know how to use inclusive language.
Mary,
While I appreciate your dedication to life as ministry, I’m not sure you fully grasp the difference between the job situation in the 1980s and the job situation today.
The current job market is the worst in almost 100 years, period. We are in the midst of a national and global recession that likes of which this country hasn’t seen since the 1930s – that is, the Great Depression. This is compounded by the fact that this generation of college (and seminary) grads is burdened with more student debt than any other generation in history by FAR.
Now, add to this the reality that the PC(USA), like all mainline denominations, is in the midst of the decline, meaning that church jobs that used to exist simply don’t exist anymore. None of this was expected when many of these people entered seminary in 2008 or 2009 (or even 2010).
The result is crop of highly-educated seminary students who are literally saddled with student debt and almost no jobs to take to pay them off. So they take one or two part-time jobs to make ends meet that make no use of the degree that they worked so hard to attain. Yes, one’s “life is ministry,” but full-scale ministry still requires SOME funds. You speak about “going out into the community” to raise money, but one of my points listed above is that seminaries offer NO INSTRUCTION on how to do this, and it’s often not as simple as walking up to people and asking for money, ESPECIALLY in the midst of an economic downturn where everyone else is strapped for cash as well.
This isn’t an issue of a younger generation feeling entitled to things older generations didn’t have. This is a younger generation just wanting to get by and perform the ministry they were trained to perform – they would LOVE to have the same situation generations before them had. The plan above is designed to help make that a reality, with the added bonus of letting seminary students discover new ways of being church — or living their ministry — in their own particular context.
Hey Jack, I like your ideas. Very much. And I would love to meet you and explore this idea. I have been having some very similar dreams. I also serve in a presbytery that is pretty creative (fight the bureaucratizing, assimilating forces; resistance is not futile). Seriously, I would love to talk with you. Check out our journey as a presbytery – a snapshot of the story so far is at http://www.losranchos.org/our-learning/the-odyssey-adventure/odyssey-process-a-primer/.
Find more about our journey at http://www.losranchos.org/our-learning/the-odyssey-adventure/
I plan to friend you on FB. I’d like to message there.
Please accept my invitation,
from one of the older generation.
Mary, I am an inquirer, a lifetime Presbyterian, an active elder, and serve as a full time office admin. at a PC(USA) church. I am currently exploring seminaries. Thank you for what you just said about life being full of risks…and yes, I remember COBOL!
I too view Jack’s ideas as wonderful and full of potential. I would be interested in further exploration/conversation of this plan, and would like to see what I can do to spread this idea along.
Yours in Christ,
Like your thinking – very missional & missionary-like. Presbyterians are aliens spreading the Gospel in a foreign culture. Go for it! I’ll do what I can to help.
Great article and discussion too. I’m excited to see the passion for Christ and ministry here.
More on the problem: With the recession and so many Presbyterian congregations and presbyteries in self-destruct mode, there aren’t the entry-level jobs that existed a decade ago. My presbytery lost at least half of the Assoc. Pastor positions in recent years. Many of the largest churches that offered many assoc. positions are 1) avoiding the high cost of ordained positions. The church I started with went from seven assoc. positions (1990) to two today. By avoiding ordained positions in favor of non-ordained directors, churches can fast-track the process and avoid triangulation that sometimes comes between Sr Pastor and an Assoc. Pastor. Many of our largest churches, which provided Assoc. Pastor positions are leaving the denomination.
To make matters worse – some seminary grads ARE finding pastoral positions – but in aging, declining, underfunded churches – desperate for an infusion of youth and cash, but on their terms – no big changes allowed. (I think I’m describing the majority of PCUSA congregations) I’m seeing these enthusiastic pastors getting beat up.
These are all symptoms of a deeper problem that exists in the PCUSA. We have not been doing evangelism for a long time now. We haven’t been planting new churches. We’re doing all we can to keep the existing churches afloat and slow the rate of church closures.
If I sound pessimistic it’s because I am- at least about the denom. The Presbyterians have a glorious past and some great churches, presently. But, the future is bleak. I believe the best place for reformed Christians is outside the PCUSA.
I have decided that at my age, I can’t wait for the denomination to turn around. So, I’m doing what you are recommending – starting a new congregation focused on making disciples of Jesus. We meet in an office building (top quality and cheap), use lay people extensively, develop small groups, worship and that’s about it. I’m part-time. And having a great time!
Do it! Don’t wait for approval or funding. Get the training you need as you go. Raise support from family and friends as you would if you were going on the mission field with a para-church org. After all, that’s exactly what you’re doing.
By the way, seminaries aren’t the only academic institutions training students for jobs that don’t exist.
Anyone who wants to join me in the SF Northbay, please contact me. dave@thevinepetaluma.org. Our website for The Vine is http://www.thevinepetaluma.org
Dave
Or you could all just come to Australia?
I am a PCUSA pastor who basically did this. I was ordained to an NCD. It did not succeed, though it lives on as the contemporary service of the church that called me as pastor (they called me and we merged the NCD remnant). The church I serve is growing at a decent clip.
My experience taught me that starting a worship community is harder than it looks, and my odds of succeeding as an NCD would be far greater if I tried again today. EXPERIENCE COUNTS.
I like your core idea, except that I believe a far better solution would be to have this pay subsidize work for candidates as a new form of intern/parish associate in thriving churches so they can “learn the business” alongside pastors who are succeeding. Let them spend a few years learning the ropes, getting lesser pay (so we can afford them) plus benefits. I don’t think you need 20 years’ to form a worship community, but there is so much I would have done differently in my NCD had I not been a rookie. (And I had been an elder, active in presbytery, chair of COM, so it isn’t as if I didn’t know the system. But I had never been a pastor. That mattered.)
I am distressed that the PCUSA seems to have given up on the idea that new life can be created WITHIN existing congregations. I think they’re wrong. They just weren’t teaching the right approaches.
@Richard,
This is so helpful. I have been remembering the same through the lens of how much, in my medium/larger congregational context, I really appreciated working alongside our seminary interns. Yes there was modest supervision (enough to fill out paperwork) and yes there was mentorship (both ways) but what I appreciated the most was the presence and witness. In our format, we asked and expected interns to practice as deep as they could. And never setting them up to be alone but truly having to face the “beauty and the beast” if I may offer, when it comes to face to face with members.
I remember one intern coming in my office and proclaiming, “I recognize that I keep coming in and asking for your permission to do this or that….and now I realize you always say, why are you asking me for permission or frankly, stop asking me for permission!” I then asked, do you need permission. She said no, then we realized that what she did need and deserve is notice that I know what she is doing and that I will want to be present for her processing of the experience. It was so brilliant to get to the heart of what a great paired ministry can offer one another while we are in the thick!
Part of letting this idea work is to let it work in particular places and for particular people. Can we set up 6 internships in a presbytery (or in a partnership of presbyteries)? Like the YAV program, it could have a defined beginning and end, with a possibility to extend for a year. No point in dismantaling other systems, can we just get some work moving? Starting a new community affords incredible freedom–that is part of the pay off for accepting the risk. The lack of clearly defined solutions forces a church planter to be open to new ideas, new people. Both the organizing council and the sem-grad would have to accept a great deal of uncertainty–but gain the liberty to fashion ministry to fit the gifts available and the context.
Not bad. Know any ideal Presbyteries for this?
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This sounds like “the church of Andy Wong.” (For those not at NEXT, I’m starting a totally unfunded church plant in my living room while holding down a full time secular job to pay the bills. I get health care through my wife who is a called and installed pastor.) We’ll see how it works here in Grace Presbytery. So far the Presbytery is totally on board, but they don’t have any financial commitment at all, so it was easy for them to green light to project.
I agree wholeheartedly. We need to raise some money in the PCUSA and wager it on 100 recent, bright, innovative recent seminary graduates. We need to say, “Go invent the next church; we’ll learn from your successes and your failures.”
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Jack – thanks for getting the conversation rolling. What you’ve describe is very similar to where we are sensing the Spirit is leading the GAMC – and prayerfully, the PCUSA. We’ve been reluctant to roll out a formal plan – because then it becomes just another plan by the GAMC, rather than a movement. We trust, and long for, brilliant minds like yours and those who’ve commented here, to help us shape this thing. Allow me to share a few details of where the 1001 Worshiping Communities movement is now:
Leadership – we sense that the major emphasis of what the GAMC can provide is in identifying, training, and sustaining new worshiping community leaders. We envision – and have plans in the works for many of the things you suggest. In the area of identification, we’d like to use the existing Call process to help identify emerging leaders who have the God-given courage and passion to pull this off. So identified, we’d like to do a more formal assessment through one of our regional coaching offices – then bring some leaders together for the kind of training often missing from our seminaries. We’re in the process of creating internships, taking an emerging leader and linking him/her with an existing new worshiping community. We would like to keep the new leader connected to a cohort of fellow new leaders for mutual support, accountability and thinking – and keep them connected to a regional coach. Our office of Vocation already offers a program called “Tilda” (Transformational Leader Debt Assistance) – which basically can help pay off debt for those to take a swing at one of these new worshiping communities. They’re transforming what has been “Aid for Study” toward more of an “Aid for Service” idea. Our office of Evangelism and Church Growth has restructured their Mission Program Grant process – and is continuing to think through – how small seed grant money can be offered to help get some of these new worshiping communities off the ground. We’re also very aware of the health care issue – and are trying to work with our fellow agencies and mid-councils to explore ways to make health care more affordable particularly for the first two years out.
Coordination & Communication – The 1001 movement is something that all six agencies of our denomination have enthusiastically chosen to get behind. Each agency is committed to doing what they can to try to support this – and to try to support emerging leadership for this. We hope to identify at least one Champion/Advocate for 1001 in each Presbytery – who we can coordinate the work with. We’d like to open at least five regional coaching offices to do more of the work I described above. We’re trying to figure out the best ways to encourage and support the kind of exchange of ideas that you’ve initiated here – as well as provide a place for leaders, churches, and Presbyteries to share best practices and learn from one another. This summer at GA, we are highlighting eleven new worshiping communities during plenary – starting each plenary with a short video and inviting commissioners to go meet the leader after the meeting in the exhibit hall. (you can check some of what we’ve finished thus far here: http://gamc.pcusa.org/ministries/1001/ ) Our new 1001 website will go live at GA. There are lots of great ideas out there already – but I’m sure we’ve only begun to scratch the surface. We also know that there are other denominations way ahead of us on this, and we’re trying to connect with them and learn from them as we go.
We strongly sense that God’s Spirit is up to something. We’re just trying to faithfully listen and respond as Christ leads. Let’s keep talking and dreaming…
Wonderful! I look forward to how this movement from the GAMC level begins to pan out. Signed, In It Together.
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I want to be a part of whatever it is that the Spirit is stirring up … 1001 New Worshipping Communities, For Such a Time as This, a part-time tentmaking gig, a business start-up/ministry start up venture. Whatever it’s going to be.
There’s an urgency to figure out HOW to get out there and MINISTER – which is what everybody really, genuinely wants to do. Institutional decisions do take too much time, sometimes. A group of inspired,innovative people (preferably with a range of ideas and backgrounds and a willingness to hear stuff that’s different) may be what’s needed. Maybe some models that can get funded are what’s needed. Maybe a few successes and a few failures are what’s needed, so that assessment and refinement can take place.
Jack, could you or someone else come up with an estimate of costs for a small number of as yet defined start ups — a base figure that could then go back to Louisville, or could be taken through grant processes?
And agreed – the benefits piece could be a big deal.
Lisa Salita (second career, middler MDiv at UPSem)
Thanks for not keeping this to yourself… I’m quite a few years out of seminary, and have the luxury of serving a small church b/c my husband (also a PCUSA pastor) has a good, solid call. But we know we’re fortunate. And in seminary, I had a dream of starting a “worshipping community” as an afterschool program at a bowling alley…
so, let’s stay in this together and see where the Spirit leads us!
I know of some churches who are hiring people to do other work (be part-time/full-time volunteers) etc. What if churches took it on themselves to do some of this….it seems similar to the model we have where churches hire College chaplains, or peer ministers or the like. Those might be some real places to build off of in the future…
Jack, I hope you are still checking these comments. I’m a teaching elder in the Presbytery of Boston, member of COM, and working on some specific settings in our Presbytery that need a new approach. Please get in touch — Elliott Hipp, deh46@columbia.edu. Invitation applies to anyone else who reads this, is a PC(USA) seminary grad, and is interested in Boston.
Thanks Jack!
Heck yes. There are pockets of $ out there in the denom proper and from “friends” that would be eager to do this.
I have been using the analogy of the baseball hall of famer. So what do you need to get into the hall of fame for batting? .350 .400? With that batting average, a batter gets a hit only 3-4 times out of 10 tries! He fails to get a hit 6-7 times out of 10!!!!
We would call that failure. But it is a reality. If we are going to start anything successful, we need to be willing to “faithfully fail.” Spread our resources around instead of betting on one “sure thing.” Of course we have to be willing to let 6-7 attempts fail, but wow, the power those 3-4 successes could inspire!
I work for the GAMC and you are right, the 1001 is still a work in progress but I think that is a good thing. It always should be. If we “decent and order” it out of existence, what do we gain?
Also, this idea of stipend and health insurance is being talked about. No idea where it will lead, but I can’t help but have hope.
The Spirit is moving! Can’t you feel it? God is changing us whether we like it or not!
Thanks for this inspiring post.
I like the idea! We do need to be creative and think about promoting worship in different ways and places.
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